Interview with Kenneth Deer* on the centenary of Deskaheh Levi General’s visit to Geneva

Interview with Kenneth Deer* on the centenary of Deskaheh Levi General’s visit to Geneva, the origins of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, the Great law of Peace, the Peace pine and the struggle for recognition and respect for the sovereignty of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy.

By Leslie Cloud**

Here are the main extracts from an interview with Kenneth Derr on July 18, 2023, at the UN in Geneva, to mark the centenary of Deskaheh Levi General’s visit to the League of Nations in 1923. 

This is a transcript of an interview conducted in English. We hope to have transcribed our interviewee’s words as faithfully as possible. 

Kenneth Deer, Genève July 2023

Entretien avec Kenneth Deer sur le centenaire de la venue de Deskaheh Levi General à Genève, l’origine de la Confédération Haudenosaunee, la Grande loi de la Paix, le pin de la Paix et la lutte pour la reconnaissance et le respect de la souveraineté de la Confédération Haudenosaunee

Par Leslie Cloud

Leslie Cloud (L.C.): “Good morning Kenneth Deer, thank you for your availability. Could you introduce yourself and then tell us about the significance of the events organized to mark the centenary of Deskaheh’s visit to Geneva in 1923, at the League of Nations? 

Kenneth Deer (K. D.): “My English name is Kenneth Deer, but my Mohawk name is Atsenhaionton, which means ‘the fire still burns’. I’m Mohawk, from the Bear Clan, and I live in Kahnawake, a Mohawk territory on the Canadian side of North America, also known as Turtle Island.”

“Even today, at the United Nations, indigenous governments cannot express themselves as governments”

“About the centenary of the arrival of our leader, Deskaheh in 1923, it took a long time. Deskaheh Levi General had twice tried to address the League of Nations, but his demands were refused. His struggle for recognition by an international institution is in some ways symbolic of the struggle waged by indigenous peoples over the last few decades. Even today, at the United Nations, indigenous governments cannot express themselves as governments, whereas member states and NGOs can. As indigenous peoples, we have our own governments, and we should have a status at the UN that reflects our status. We should have access to all UN activities as permanent observer status allows. So it’s been a struggle, and the anniversary of Deskaheh’s arrival symbolizes our struggle. It’s important to commemorate these 100 years, because we’re letting the United Nations know that we don’t want to wait another 100 years to be recognized as a government. 

“We want to use the names of our nations, get rid of the Iroquois appellation and be recognized as Haudenosaunee.

L. C.: “Could you tell us about the Haudenosaunee Confederation, how it works, and the secrets of its longevity?” 

K. D.: “We’re known as the Iroquois Confederacy of 6 Nations, Haudenoshaune, which means, the people of the longhouse. Because our traditional habitat was a longhouse, and it symbolically represents our territory, which, from east to west, forms a longhouse. Our territory stretches from New York and Vermont to Pennsylvania. It even covers part of Quebec and Ontario in Canada. This is the land of the Longhouse peoples. 

Originally, we were five nations, from east to west: the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga and Seneca. Then, at the beginning of the 18th century, the Tuscarora joined the Confederacy, which has since comprised 6 nations, which Europeans, particularly the French, have called Iroquois. But we wish to take advantage of the names of our nations and get rid of the Iroquois appellation to be recognized as Haudenosaunee. (…) 

“These are the paths of peace that founded our Confederation.”

(…) We had a very sophisticated civilization. Before contact with the Europeans, we already had a constitution. It was given to us by Hiawatha, the Peacemaker. The Peacemaker came to us because we were warring peoples, and he taught us the ways of peace. He taught us that if we wanted to stop killing our neighbors, if we wanted to stop hating each other, all we had to do was follow the simple laws of peace. First, bury weapons of war in the ground, and don’t use them on your fellow man. With these weapons, we bury our hatred and thirst for vengeance, flaws and acts of discrimination. You bury it all underground. We also need to use good words with others, words that don’t hurt; not words that stir up hatred or old anger, just words that compliment the other person. And during discussions, we must show reason, uprightness, morality, good thinking, a good spirit. When you take a decision, you have to make it by consensus. We talk, we talk, we talk until we reach agreement. Once consensus is reached, we can act together and have peace. These are the ways of peace that founded our Confederation. It makes us a strong federation of nations with strong military power. This is what the Europeans found when they came here. This constitution provides for the role of men, chiefs, women, clan mothers. It was a matriarchal society. The women carried the clan, chose the chiefs. They could also dismiss them. The men practiced diplomacy, hunting, fishing and warfare, while the women took care of the community, the plants and gathered with the men. They were equal, but with distinct responsibilities. Our constitution takes into account our spirituality and provides for a cycle of ceremonies. (…) “

“Only nations make treaties, and we believe in treaties. All this has given us a strong sense of identity that has survived the genocidal policies pursued by the governments of Canada and the United States. These teachings have enabled us to survive.”

The Tree of Peace and Haudenosaunee Sovereignty

(…) Our constitution is represented by a tree. When the Peacemaker buried the weapons, he planted a tree above them. It was a white pine. It’s the symbol of the Confederation and the paths of peace. Despite the invasion of the Europeans, we have managed to maintain our traditions thanks to our constitution and the teachings handed down by oral tradition from generation to generation. The women continue to carry the clan, they appoint the chiefs; when they die, they appoint new ones and so on… Our tradition has thus been maintained for centuries. Thanks to this constitution, we’ve been able to hold our own right up to the present day. This makes us a very strong people. We have a very strong sense of who we are, of our sovereignty. We have never surrendered our sovereignty to anyone. We have treaties with foreign nations, with France, Great Britain, the United States and the Netherlands. Only nations make treaties, and we believe in treaties. All this has given us a strong sense of identity that has survived the genocidal policies pursued by the governments of Canada and the United States. These teachings have enabled us to survive. ” 

L.C.: “What advances and challenges do you see in the relations between the Haudenosaunee Confederation, the United States, Canada and the United Nations? 

K. D.: “At the United Nations, our challenge is the same as the one Desakheh faced when the League of Nations wouldn’t let him speak. Even today, Deskaheh still cannot express himself at the United Nations. He is here in this UN building, but he won’t speak out until our governments are recognized. We continue to hope that the United Nations will recognize us as sovereign peoples. (…)

“We believe in diplomacy, in the paths of peace. We don’t declare war on anyone, and we believe in nation-to-nation, treaty-based relations. We still believe in all that.” 

(…) Our relationship with Canada and the United States is similar. The governments of Canada and the United States have tried to destroy and take away our power, to turn us into a patriarchal society when we are a matriarchal society. They have had the support of religions to harm us. They took away our power by imposing an electoral system. The Canadian and American governments only recognize the institutions elected by their system, whereas our real governments have always been there. But they don’t want to recognize us. It’s a similar situation to that of the United Nations. They only recognize their peoples, their nations, but they don’t want to recognize indigenous states, indigenous peoples with their sovereignty, their territories and their rights. So, there’s a similarity between what’s happening at the United Nations, in Canada and in the United States. However, we believe in diplomacy, in the ways of peace. We don’t declare war on anyone, and we believe in nation-to-nation, treaty-based relations. We still believe in all that. (…)

“When we come to the United Nations, we see our presence here in the same way. We come as equals. We see ourselves as equals, but we are treated unequally. So we’re still looking for recognition of our equality.”

(…) When we come to the United Nations, to Switzerland, to Geneva, we believe in nation-to-nation relations. These relationships are symbolized by the two-row wampun (belt). It’s a belt of shell beads with two purple strands on a white background. One purple line represents the Europeans with their boats in which they transported their people, their goods and their religions. The other row represents our canoes with our people, our goods, our laws and our spirituality. The white background is the river of life.  The belt symbolizes the parallel paths that the European boats and our canoes will take down the river of life, side by side, in parallel, without interfering with each other. Today, we still believe in this type of relationship, which corresponds not only to our past, but also to the future we hope for with other nations. 

By coming to the United Nations, we see our presence here in the same way. We come as equals. We see ourselves as equals, but we are treated unequally. So we’re still looking for recognition of our equality.” 

“So we need a little more generosity, a little more control over the use of resources, and we need to do our best to mitigate climate change.”

L.C.: “Do you have a message for future generations, indigenous and non-indigenous alike?” 

K.D.: “I think humanity is in crisis. Climate change is here. It’s just beginning and it’s going to get worse. We have to do everything in our power to limit climate change. The life of profit and luxury that people have led, particularly in developed countries, is coming to an end. Now they’re going to suffer because of the lifestyle they’ve led up to now. (…) I believe that all of humanity must be capable of understanding the suffering of others and supporting them. Climate refugees must be allowed in, because the developed world turns its back on them, whereas climate refugees are of their making. They must open their doors to the suffering peoples of the world, where the climate makes life impossible. My advice to the world is to be less strict with borders, be more generous with what we have and share it with others. There’s going to be so much suffering…; there’s going to be war, violence because people are going to be so desperate to live, eat, have water, breathe. They’re going to use violence to get it all. And you don’t want that. So we need a little more generosity, a little more control over the use of resources, and we need to do our best to mitigate climate change.” 

Thank you Atsenhaienton Kenneth Deer!

*Dr. Kenneth Atsenhaienton Deer

Dr. Deer is a member of the Bear Clan from the Mohawk community of Kahnawake and former Secretary of the Mohawk Nation at Kahnawake.

He received an Honorary Doctorate of Laws from Concordia University in Montreal, for lifetime achievement in 2015.

Dr. Deer has been active in promoting and defending the rights of Indigenous Peoples in the UN system for over thirty years. He participated in the meetings Working Group on Indigenous Populations, the Working Group on the Draft Declaration, the Permanent Form on Indigenous Issues, the Expert Mechanism on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, former member of the Board of Trustees of the UN Voluntary Fund for Indigenous Peoples and many other UN activities. Kenneth Deer is also a member of the Haudenosaunee External Relations Committee.

** Leslie CLOUD   is a lawyer specializing in indigenous peoples’ rights and asylum law. She was the Indigenous Peoples Research Line Manager for the Normandy Chair for Peace and she is project manager for the indigenous peoples’s programs of the Institut Francophone pour la Justice à la Démocratie. She is co-author with Irène Bellier and Laurent Lacroix of the book Les droits des peuples autochtones. Des Nations unies aux sociétés locales, Paris, Le Harmattan, 2017.